Hi David,
there are still a lot of smaller issues like this one around Fresnel where
we have to look into the details again. The specifity functions definitively
still need work. But Fresnel already got some complexity in it and changes
always affect other parts.
So, I think it would be a good idea to capture the current status of the
vocabularies first (as I currently do with the documentation) and discuss
all the open issues afterwards based on a shared understanding of the
interrelations.
I'm starting an open issue list and your/Eric's issue is the first one this
list.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "David R. Karger" <karger_at_mit.edu>
To: <general_at_simile.mit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: toString and fresnel
>
> [resending because of email troubles]
>
> chris, I would set it up a bit differently (in order to avoid hardwiring
> defaults): write a labelLens that applies to everything and produces
> (in preference order) value of rdfs:label of object, or dc:title of
object,
> or uri of object. Then make sure that lens has lowest priority/gets
overridden
> by any more specific lens for the object.
>
> Mailing-List: contact general-help_at_simile.mit.edu; run by ezmlm
> X-No-Archive: yes
> Reply-To: <general_at_simile.mit.edu>
> X-Authenticated: #1074481
> From: "Chris Bizer" <bizer_at_gmx.de>
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:30:46 -0500
> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
> X-Spam-Level:
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tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE
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> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Hi Eric and all,
>
> We are having the concept of labelLenses in Fresnel for handling this
=
> case.
>
> Quote from the Fresnel manual I'm currently writing:
>
http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/FresnelVocabul=
> ary.htm
>
> A :labelLens provides a short human-understandable label for an
instance =
> of a specific class. Browser in the need of labelling a instance (see =
> fresnel:label in the core style vocabulary) should implement the =
> following behaviour:
>
> 1. Look for a labelLens for the specific class.
> 2. If no label lens is found, display rdfs:label value.
> 3. If no rdfs:label is found, display dc:title value.
> 4. If no dc:title is found, display the URI of the resource.
>
>
> Example: LabelLens for the class foaf:Person specifying that the =
> person's name should be used as label:=20
>
> :foafPersonLabelLens rdf:type fresnel:ClassLens ;
> fresnel:purpose fresnel:labelLens ;
> fresnel:lensDomain foaf:Person ;
> fresnel:showProperties foaf:name .
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Eric Miller" <em_at_w3.org>
> To: <general_at_simile.mit.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: toString and fresnel
>
>
> >=20
> > On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:30 AM, David R. Karger wrote:
> >=20
> > > please be more precise about in-your-face urls?
> >=20
> > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ is an in-your-face url.
> >=20
> > > i am sure fresnel shows rdfs:label if it exists; question is what
> > > to do if there is none.
> >=20
> > Exactly.
> >=20
> > Implementing variants of this problem in the past (and
generalizing=20
> > from various other implementations), the general approach seems to
be=20
> > hard-wired in code to look for (rdf:value, rdfs:label, dc:title)
and=20
> > then punt to an in-your-face url of the 'thing'. I'm hoping we can
do=20
> > better than that. :)
> >=20
> > Haystack seems to have gotten this pretty close. How is this being =
> done?
> >=20
> > As Emmanuel mentioned -
> >=20
> > "... fresnel:label (or at least there is label in it, Chris or
Ryan=20
> > will know better) and takes a URI reference (indicating a property)
as =
>
> > the property value to be considered as the label."
> >=20
> > seems to be a start towards this.
> >=20
> > There are various issues to watch out for with objects that are=20
> > multiple types (which in turn might have multiple fresnel:label (s) =
> but=20
> > thats a different thread.
> >=20
> > I just wanted to make sure this feature was in there somewhere. :)
> >=20
> > > Perhaps rather then showing url, fresnel
> > > should print "unnamed <rdfs:Class of resource>"
> >=20
> > Yes. In the case of not knowing the 'label', applications should=20
> > defaulting to some sort of additional helpful display. While this=20
> > default will be application specific in the case of Longwell /=20
> > PiggyBank / SemBank a linked version of the above is preferable to=20
> > 'anonymous'.
> >=20
> > --
> > eric miller http://www.w3.org/people/em/
> > semantic web activity lead http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/
> > w3c world wide web consortium http://www.w3.org/
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > From general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu Tue
=
> Mar=20
> > > 22 09:23:55 2005
> > > Mailing-List: contact general-help_at_simile.mit.edu; run by ezmlm
> > > X-No-Archive: yes
> > > Reply-To: <general_at_simile.mit.edu>
> > > To: general_at_simile.mit.edu
> > > From: Eric Miller <em_at_w3.org>
> > > Subject: toString and fresnel
> > > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:23:52 -0500
> > >
> > > In your face URLs are a "bad thing".
> > >
> > > One of the uses I see of fresnel is being able to declaratively
> > > indicate human readable "default" labels for arbitrary resources.
I
> > > suspect this is part of fresnel but I haven't seen this discussed =
> yet.
> > > Can one of the fresnel folk confirm how this is currently handled?
> > >
> > > I just want to make sure we don't miss the simple use cases while
> > > dealing with the harder ones.
> > >
> > > --
> > > eric miller =
> http://www.w3.org/people/em/
> > > semantic web activity lead http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/
> > > w3c world wide web consortium http://www.w3.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C52ECA.354939B0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Eric and all,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We are having the concept of =
> labelLenses in=20
> Fresnel for handling this case.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Quote from the Fresnel manual I'm =
> currently=20
> writing:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
>
href=3D"
http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/Fresne=
>
lVocabulary.htm">
http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manu=
> al/FresnelVocabulary.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A :labelLens provides a short =
> human-understandable=20
> label for an instance of a specific class. Browser in the need of =
> labelling a=20
> instance (see fresnel:label in the core style vocabulary) should =
> implement the=20
> following behaviour:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. Look for a labelLens for the =
> specific=20
> class.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. If no label lens is found, display
=
> rdfs:label=20
> value.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. If no rdfs:label is found, display
=
> dc:title=20
> value.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4. If no dc:title is found, display
the =
> URI of the=20
> resource.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Example: LabelLens for the class =
> foaf:Person=20
> specifying that the person's name should be used as label: =
> </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>:foafPersonLabelLens rdf:type =
> fresnel:ClassLens=20
>
;<BR> &n=
> bsp; =20
> fresnel:purpose fresnel:labelLens=20
>
;<BR> &n=
> bsp; =20
> fresnel:lensDomain foaf:Person=20
>
;<BR> &n=
> bsp; =20
> fresnel:showProperties foaf:name .</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Eric Miller" <</FONT><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:em_at_w3.org"><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>em_at_w3.org</FONT></A><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: <</FONT><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:50 =
> AM</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: toString and=20
> fresnel</FONT></DIV></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>> <BR>> On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:30 AM, David R. Karger =
> wrote:<BR>>=20
> <BR>> > please be more precise about in-your-face urls?<BR>> =
> <BR>>=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2> is an=20
> in-your-face url.<BR>> <BR>> > i am sure fresnel shows =
> rdfs:label if it=20
> exists; question is what<BR>> > to do if there is =
> none.<BR>>=20
> <BR>> Exactly.<BR>> <BR>> Implementing variants of this
problem =
> in the=20
> past (and generalizing <BR>> from various other implementations),
the =
> general=20
> approach seems to be <BR>> hard-wired in code to look for =
> (rdf:value, =20
> rdfs:label, dc:title) and <BR>> then punt to an in-your-face url of
=
> the=20
> 'thing'. I'm hoping we can do <BR>> better than that. :)<BR>> =
> <BR>>=20
> Haystack seems to have gotten this pretty close. How is this being =
> done?<BR>>=20
> <BR>> As Emmanuel mentioned -<BR>> <BR>> "... fresnel:label
(or =
> at=20
> least there is label in it, Chris or Ryan <BR>> will know better)
and =
> takes a=20
> URI reference (indicating a property) as <BR>> the property value to
=
> be=20
> considered as the label."<BR>> <BR>> seems to be a start
towards=20
> this.<BR>> <BR>> There are various issues to watch out for with =
> objects=20
> that are <BR>> multiple types (which in turn might have multiple=20
> fresnel:label (s) but <BR>> thats a different thread.<BR>> =
> <BR>> I just=20
> wanted to make sure this feature was in there somewhere. :)<BR>> =
> <BR>>=20
> > Perhaps rather then showing url, fresnel<BR>> > should
=
> print=20
> "unnamed <rdfs:Class of resource>"<BR>> <BR>> Yes. In the =
> case of=20
> not knowing the 'label', applications should <BR>> defaulting to
some =
> sort of=20
> additional helpful display. While this <BR>> default will be =
> application=20
> specific in the case of Longwell / <BR>> PiggyBank / SemBank a
linked =
> version=20
> of the above is preferable to <BR>> 'anonymous'.<BR>> <BR>> =
> --<BR>>=20
> eric=20
>
miller &=
>
nbsp; &n=
> bsp; =20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/people/em/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/people/em/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial
=
> size=3D2>>=20
> semantic web activity=20
>
lead &nb=
> sp; =20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>> w3c=20
> world wide web=20
>
consortium &nb=
> sp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>> <BR>>=20
> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > From </FONT><A=20
>
href=3D"mailto:general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu">=
> <FONT=20
> face=3DArial=20
>
size=3D2>general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT><=
> /A><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2> Tue Mar <BR>> > 22 09:23:55 =
> 2005<BR>> >=20
> Mailing-List: contact </FONT><A =
> href=3D"mailto:general-help_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2>general-help_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>; run by ezmlm<BR>> > X-No-Archive: yes<BR>> > =
> Reply-To:=20
> <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT
face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>><BR>>=20
> > To: </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>> >=20
> From: Eric Miller <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:em_at_w3.org"><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>em_at_w3.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>><BR>> =
> > Subject:=20
> toString and fresnel<BR>> > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:23:52 =
> -0500<BR>>=20
> ><BR>> > In your face URLs are a "bad thing".<BR>> =
> ><BR>> >=20
> One of the uses I see of fresnel is being able to declaratively<BR>>
=
> >=20
> indicate human readable "default" labels for arbitrary
resources. =20
> I<BR>> > suspect this is part of fresnel but I haven't seen this
=
> discussed=20
> yet.<BR>> > Can one of the fresnel folk confirm how this is =
> currently=20
> handled?<BR>> ><BR>> > I just want to make sure we don't =
> miss the=20
> simple use cases while<BR>> > dealing with the harder =
> ones.<BR>>=20
> ><BR>> > --<BR>> > eric=20
>
miller &=
>
nbsp; &n=
> bsp; =20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/people/em/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/people/em/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial
=
> size=3D2>>=20
> > semantic web activity=20
>
lead &nb=
> sp; =20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>>=20
> > w3c world wide web=20
>
consortium &nb=
> sp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>>=20
> ><BR>> ><BR>> </FONT></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C52ECA.354939B0--
>
Received on Tue Mar 22 2005 - 18:07:57 EST