please UNSUSCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: <Federica.Sgherri_at_dnv.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:45:22 +0100

 

________________________________

From: Chris Bizer [mailto:bizer_at_gmx.de]
Sent: giovedý 24 marzo 2005 16.30
To: general_at_simile.mit.edu
Subject: Re: toString and fresnel


 
Hi David,

> chris, I would set it up a bit differently (in order to avoid hardwiring
> defaults): write a labelLens that applies to everything and produces
> (in preference order) value of rdfs:label of object, or dc:title of object,
> or uri of object. Then make sure that lens has lowest priority/gets overridden
> by any more specific lens for the object.

Sure, no problem. We can use fresnel:alternateProperties to encode this behaviour. See:
http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/FresnelVocabulary.htm#alternateandmerged
 
Example:
 
:smartDefaultLens rdf:type fresnel:Lens ;
  fresnel:domain foaf:Person ;
                 fresnel:purpose fresnel:defaultLens ;
                 fresnel:showProperties
                 ( [ rdf:type fresnel:propertyDescription
                    fresnel:alternateProperties ( foaf:name
                                                                    foaf:surname
                                                                    vcard:name
                                                                    ex:alsoAName
                                                                    rdfs:label
                                                                    dc:title ) ] ) .
 
But I would rather like to hardwire some defaults, so that the usual stuff is also tried when we don't have such smart defaultLenses.
 
This defaults could be realized by a labelLens using alternateProperties and having the domain rdfs:Class as you proposed or be hardwired into the browser. Both is possible.


Chris
 
 
>
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> From: "Chris Bizer" <bizer_at_gmx.de <mailto:bizer_at_gmx.de> >
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:30:46 -0500
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>
>
> Hi Eric and all,
>
> We are having the concept of labelLenses in Fresnel for handling this =
> case.
>
> Quote from the Fresnel manual I'm currently writing:
> http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/FresnelVocabul <http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/FresnelVocabul> =
> ary.htm
>
> A :labelLens provides a short human-understandable label for an instance =
> of a specific class. Browser in the need of labelling a instance (see =
> fresnel:label in the core style vocabulary) should implement the =
> following behaviour:
>
> 1. Look for a labelLens for the specific class.
> 2. If no label lens is found, display rdfs:label value.
> 3. If no rdfs:label is found, display dc:title value.
> 4. If no dc:title is found, display the URI of the resource.
>
>
> Example: LabelLens for the class foaf:Person specifying that the =
> person's name should be used as label:=20
>
> :foafPersonLabelLens rdf:type fresnel:ClassLens ;
> fresnel:purpose fresnel:labelLens ;
> fresnel:lensDomain foaf:Person ;
> fresnel:showProperties foaf:name .
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Eric Miller" <em_at_w3.org <mailto:em_at_w3.org> >
> To: <general_at_simile.mit.edu <mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu> >
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: toString and fresnel
>
>
> >=20
> > On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:30 AM, David R. Karger wrote:
> >=20
> > > please be more precise about in-your-face urls?
> >=20
> > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/> is an in-your-face url.
> >=20
> > > i am sure fresnel shows rdfs:label if it exists; question is what
> > > to do if there is none.
> >=20
> > Exactly.
> >=20
> > Implementing variants of this problem in the past (and generalizing=20
> > from various other implementations), the general approach seems to be=20
> > hard-wired in code to look for (rdf:value, rdfs:label, dc:title) and=20
> > then punt to an in-your-face url of the 'thing'. I'm hoping we can do=20
> > better than that. :)
> >=20
> > Haystack seems to have gotten this pretty close. How is this being =
> done?
> >=20
> > As Emmanuel mentioned -
> >=20
> > "... fresnel:label (or at least there is label in it, Chris or Ryan=20
> > will know better) and takes a URI reference (indicating a property) as =
>
> > the property value to be considered as the label."
> >=20
> > seems to be a start towards this.
> >=20
> > There are various issues to watch out for with objects that are=20
> > multiple types (which in turn might have multiple fresnel:label (s) =
> but=20
> > thats a different thread.
> >=20
> > I just wanted to make sure this feature was in there somewhere. :)
> >=20
> > > Perhaps rather then showing url, fresnel
> > > should print "unnamed <rdfs:Class of resource>"
> >=20
> > Yes. In the case of not knowing the 'label', applications should=20
> > defaulting to some sort of additional helpful display. While this=20
> > default will be application specific in the case of Longwell /=20
> > PiggyBank / SemBank a linked version of the above is preferable to=20
> > 'anonymous'.
> >=20
> > --
> > eric miller http://www.w3.org/people/em/ <http://www.w3.org/people/em/>
> > semantic web activity lead http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/>
> > w3c world wide web consortium http://www.w3.org/ <http://www.w3.org/>
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > From general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu <mailto:general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu> Tue =
> Mar=20
> > > 22 09:23:55 2005
> > > Mailing-List: contact general-help_at_simile.mit.edu <mailto:general-help_at_simile.mit.edu> ; run by ezmlm
> > > X-No-Archive: yes
> > > Reply-To: <general_at_simile.mit.edu <mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu> >
> > > To: general_at_simile.mit.edu <mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu>
> > > From: Eric Miller <em_at_w3.org <mailto:em_at_w3.org> >
> > > Subject: toString and fresnel
> > > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:23:52 -0500
> > >
> > > In your face URLs are a "bad thing".
> > >
> > > One of the uses I see of fresnel is being able to declaratively
> > > indicate human readable "default" labels for arbitrary resources. I
> > > suspect this is part of fresnel but I haven't seen this discussed =
> yet.
> > > Can one of the fresnel folk confirm how this is currently handled?
> > >
> > > I just want to make sure we don't miss the simple use cases while
> > > dealing with the harder ones.
> > >
> > > --
> > > eric miller =
> http://www.w3.org/people/em/ <http://www.w3.org/people/em/>
> > > semantic web activity lead http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/>
> > > w3c world wide web consortium http://www.w3.org/ <http://www.w3.org/>
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C52ECA.354939B0
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> <BODY>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Eric and all,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We are having the concept of =
> &nbsp;labelLenses in=20
> Fresnel&nbsp;for handling this case.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Quote from the Fresnel manual I'm =
> currently=20
> writing:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
> href=3D"http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/Fresne <http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manual/Fresne> =
> lVocabulary.htm">http://simile.mit.edu/repository/fresnel/trunk/docs/manu=
> al/FresnelVocabulary.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A :labelLens provides a short =
> human-understandable=20
> label for an instance of a specific class. Browser in the need of =
> labelling a=20
> instance (see fresnel:label in the core style vocabulary) should =
> implement the=20
> following behaviour:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. Look for a labelLens for the =
> specific=20
> class.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. If no label lens is found, display =
> rdfs:label=20
> value.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. If no rdfs:label is found, display =
> dc:title=20
> value.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4. If no dc:title is found, display the =
> URI of the=20
> resource.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Example: LabelLens for the class =
> foaf:Person=20
> specifying that the person's&nbsp;name should be used as label: =
> </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>:foafPersonLabelLens rdf:type =
> fresnel:ClassLens=20
> ;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
> bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> fresnel:purpose fresnel:labelLens=20
> ;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
> bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> fresnel:lensDomain foaf:Person=20
> ;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
> bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> fresnel:showProperties foaf:name .</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Eric Miller" &lt;</FONT><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:em_at_w3.org"><FONT <mailto:em_at_w3.org"><FONT> face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>em_at_w3.org</FONT></A><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT <mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:50 =
> AM</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: toString and=20
> fresnel</FONT></DIV></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:30 AM, David R. Karger =
> wrote:<BR>&gt;=20
> <BR>&gt; &gt; please be more precise about in-your-face urls?<BR>&gt; =
> <BR>&gt;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2> is an=20
> in-your-face url.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; i am sure fresnel shows =
> rdfs:label if it=20
> exists; question is what<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to do if there is =
> none.<BR>&gt;=20
> <BR>&gt; Exactly.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Implementing variants of this problem =
> in the=20
> past (and generalizing <BR>&gt; from various other implementations), the =
> general=20
> approach seems to be <BR>&gt; hard-wired in code to look for =
> (rdf:value,&nbsp;=20
> rdfs:label, dc:title) and <BR>&gt; then punt to an in-your-face url of =
> the=20
> 'thing'. I'm hoping we can do <BR>&gt; better than that. :)<BR>&gt; =
> <BR>&gt;=20
> Haystack seems to have gotten this pretty close. How is this being =
> done?<BR>&gt;=20
> <BR>&gt; As Emmanuel mentioned -<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "... fresnel:label (or =
> at=20
> least there is label in it, Chris or Ryan <BR>&gt; will know better) and =
> takes a=20
> URI reference (indicating a property) as <BR>&gt; the property value to =
> be=20
> considered as the label."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; seems to be a start towards=20
> this.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There are various issues to watch out for with =
> objects=20
> that are <BR>&gt; multiple types (which in turn might have multiple=20
> fresnel:label (s) but <BR>&gt; thats a different thread.<BR>&gt; =
> <BR>&gt; I just=20
> wanted to make sure this feature was in there somewhere. :)<BR>&gt; =
> <BR>&gt;=20
> &gt; Perhaps rather then showing url, fresnel<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; should =
> print=20
> "unnamed &lt;rdfs:Class of resource&gt;"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes. In the =
> case of=20
> not knowing the 'label', applications should <BR>&gt; defaulting to some =
> sort of=20
> additional helpful display. While this <BR>&gt; default will be =
> application=20
> specific in the case of Longwell / <BR>&gt; PiggyBank / SemBank a linked =
> version=20
> of the above is preferable to <BR>&gt; 'anonymous'.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
> --<BR>&gt;=20
> eric=20
> miller&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
> nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
> bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/people/em/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/people/em/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/people/em/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt;=20
> semantic web activity=20
> lead&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
> sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt; w3c=20
> world wide web=20
> consortium&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
> sp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt;=20
> <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From </FONT><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu <mailto:general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu> ">=
> <FONT=20
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general-return-345-karger=3Dcsail.mit.edu_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT><=
> /A><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; Tue Mar <BR>&gt; &gt; 22 09:23:55 =
> 2005<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
> Mailing-List: contact </FONT><A =
> href=3D"mailto:general-help_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT=20 <mailto:general-help_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT=20>
> face=3DArial size=3D2>general-help_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>; run by ezmlm<BR>&gt; &gt; X-No-Archive: yes<BR>&gt; &gt; =
> Reply-To:=20
> &lt;</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT <mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
> &gt; To: </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT <mailto:general_at_simile.mit.edu"><FONT> =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>general_at_simile.mit.edu</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt; &gt;=20
> From: Eric Miller &lt;</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:em_at_w3.org"><FONT <mailto:em_at_w3.org"><FONT> =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>em_at_w3.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
> &gt; Subject:=20
> toString and fresnel<BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:23:52 =
> -0500<BR>&gt;=20
> &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In your face URLs are a "bad thing".<BR>&gt; =
> &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
> One of the uses I see of fresnel is being able to declaratively<BR>&gt; =
> &gt;=20
> indicate human readable "default" labels for arbitrary resources.&nbsp;=20
> I<BR>&gt; &gt; suspect this is part of fresnel but I haven't seen this =
> discussed=20
> yet.<BR>&gt; &gt; Can one of the fresnel folk confirm how this is =
> currently=20
> handled?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I just want to make sure we don't =
> miss the=20
> simple use cases while<BR>&gt; &gt; dealing with the harder =
> ones.<BR>&gt;=20
> &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; eric=20
> miller&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
> nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
> bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/people/em/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/people/em/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/people/em/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt;=20
> &gt; semantic web activity=20
> lead&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
> sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt;=20
> &gt; w3c world wide web=20
> consortium&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
> sp;=20
> </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.w3.org/"><FONT <http://www.w3.org/"><FONT> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>http://www.w3.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>&gt;=20
> &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; </FONT></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C52ECA.354939B0--
>

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Received on Thu Mar 24 2005 - 15:45:22 EST

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